By now “El Sistema” is a well-known phrase in orchestra circles. When used in conversation, it conjures up images of hundreds of children from disadvantaged backgrounds making joyous music together. But does it have a place in the broader world? What could the average person in America’s heartland possibly find interesting or relevant about a government-funded social program in Venezuela?
A lot, according to Tricia Tunstall. In her new book Changing Lives: Gustavo Dudamel, El Sistema, and the Transformative Power of Music, Tunstall attempts to paint an accurate picture of this unique and powerful music-education program, a task made difficult by the fact that it adapts and evolves in response to its own successes and to ever-shifting need. But the effort, in her mind, was worth it, because the lessons learned from El Sistema are more than musical. They could have far-reaching effects on how societies in the 21st century turn situations of dead ends and despair into ones of hope and promise.
The book traces the story of Gustavo Dudamel, who progressed from El Sistema-trained violinist to professional conductor to being named—at age 28—music director of the Los Angeles Philharmonic. Tunstall offers close-up reporting on the impact of El Sistema, tracks the program’s history and its central role in the lives of Venezuelan children, and speaks with its visionary founder, José Antonio Abreu. (Changing Lives: Gustavo Dudamel, El Sistema, and the Transformative Power of Music is published this month by W.W. Norton; 320 pages; $26.95.)
From my desk at the Dallas Symphony, where I am director of education, I spent a lively hour speaking with Tunstall about this book, her experiences in Venezuela, and her personal perspective on the questions raised by the mere existence of El Sistema. Below are some of the highlights of that conversation.
Jamie Allen: Why did you feel the need to write this book?
Tricia Tunstall: Ever since I knew about El Sistema and about Dudamel, I knew that a book needed to be written about it, and I really wanted to be the one to do it because the acute difference between what musical experiences are available to middle- and upper-class kids and what’s available to kids in poverty troubles me deeply. The other motivating factor was my sense that when children—when people—play music together, it really is a microcosm of the harmonious way that people ideally interact in society. The tremendous accord that comes from that is something that I’ve long valued about playing music together. So when Jamie Bernstein first told me about El Sistema, I was absolutely fascinated because both of these interests of mine were so dramatically illustrated in Venezuela.
Allen: Who do you imagine is your audience for this book?
Tunstall: I would like it to be as wide as possible. Any thinking and feeling person, given a chance to get to know this subject, might be interested in it, even if they’re not a professional educator or a musician or a social activist. I think the subject speaks to our humanity so inherently that I’m hoping the book will reach much more than just professionals.
Allen: Do you think that the dichotomy between equal access to music learning and artistic excellence is a false one?
Tunstall: Yes. I think it is absolutely possible to achieve both. Anyone who doubts that will have trouble holding on to their doubts when they go to Venezuela. What you see in Venezuela is a powerful example of the real possibility of giving children of every socioeconomic background (primarily children of poverty) the opportunity to achieve at extremely high levels artistically and musically. It was something I spent a long time trying to understand because it’s so contrary to what we expect here in the States. We naturally think we have to choose access or we have to choose excellence. Both are good goals, but we can’t choose both. Unraveling that in my mind, and being open to what Venezuela had to teach me, was really fascinating. I would say that it has to do with the idea of community being imbued with the idea of excellence. The children in the núcleos [El Sistema-sponsored centers that provide music instruction on the local level] feel themselves as a community working together towards unified goals. One crucial aspect of that unified goal is excellence. They all seem to understand that, and they identify excellence with being a more powerful community. There is a tremendous incentive on the part of each child in the program to become better, to achieve more excellence, because it’s in the interests of the community as a whole. That’s a very strong drive.
Allen: Do you think this kind of program is unique to Venezuela, or is it possible here in the States?
Tunstall: It’s possible in the States, but it’s more challenging. We tend to think of excellence as an individual aspiration or achievement—something that we achieve by ourselves, whether it’s a high SAT score or a perfect performance of a Bach invention. So it’s a challenge to bring the Venezuelan ideal to the United States simply because of that cultural expectation and background. But I do think it’s possible because children—and human beings generally—have a strong drive toward cooperating with others, toward being a part of something bigger than oneself. That’s a natural human aspiration and I think we as teachers really need to tap into that.
Allen: Do you envision the hundreds of youth orchestras in the U.S. being networked in a way that is similar to El Sistema?
Tunstall: Youth orchestras in the U.S. today are thriving. The level of excellence is quite high, but it would be great if there was another level of understanding. There is the potential of a community of youth orchestras all working toward the same goals, with the same standards, and providing the same joys. It would be amazing if kids could begin to feel united around that.
Allen: Do you think that achievements and measurements have a place in music education?
Tunstall: What we have in the U.S. is so well developed, I think Abreu would say: “Don’t take it apart. Simply expand and imagine new ways that the current system can coexist with a different spirit.” I think he would say that there is much good about what we have, and that we need to keep the best of it. We are a culture that is not going to stop valuing individual achievement any time soon, but it would be great if that respect for individual achievement could be embraced by, and integrated with, a more communitarian vision. I think that’s not impossible.
Jamie Allen, below, has over 25 years of experience as a composer, conductor, performer, and music educator. Since 2006, he has been the education director for the Dallas Symphony Orchestra, which is currently celebrating the 20th anniversary of Young Strings, a program that provides free instruments and lessons to students throughout Dallas. His articles about music and cultural issues have appeared in many national and regional publications.
Take A Stand: From Dream to Reality
How to turn inspiration about El Sistema into a reality here in the U.S.? Three leading musical and academic organizations have joined forces to support social change through music. Take A Stand—a joint project of the Los Angeles Philharmonic, the Longy School of Music (Cambridge, Mass.), and Bard College (upstate New York)—aims to adapt and apply the lessons of Venezuela’s national youth music-training system to this country. Take A Stand plans to offer conferences, workshops, and other activities for U.S.-based classical-music teachers, and is launching a new Masters of Arts in Teaching degree program to help musicians and music-educators connect with needy communities.
The inaugural Take A Stand Symposium takes place from January 30 to February 1. The symposium focuses on bringing the thinking behind the El Sistema movement to life through interactive workshops, learning opportunities, and networking. The symposium’s nearly 300 attendees represent 11 different countries and 22 different states. Among the activities: hearing from the New England Conservatory’s third class of Abreu Fellows as they present findings from a survey of U.S. núcleos; connecting with leaders and teachers from El Sistema’s headquarters in Caracas; gaining insights on program implementation, teaching philosophy, staff hiring, and fundraising; and previewing Take A Stand’s Master of Arts in Teaching in Music. Speakers include Deborah Borda, president and CEO of the Los Angeles Philharmonic, and Leon Botstein, president of Bard College and a noted conductor. In addition, symposium attendees will observe the Simón Bolívar Symphony Orchestra of Venezuela working along with YOLA (Youth Orchestra of Los Angeles, the Los Angeles Philharmonic’s El Sistema-inspired program), and are invited to attend a performance of Mahler’s Seventh Symphony by the Simón Bolívar Symphony Orchestra of Venezuela, conducted by Gustavo Dudamel at Walt Disney Concert Hall. For complete information, visit http://laphil.com/symposium.
The League of American Orchestras is pleased to host an El Sistema discussion group on League360, our new online community. This web-based discussion group is only open to individuals associated with El Sistema-inspired programs. Please contact the League’s Member Services department at 212 262 5161 for more information.
Photo of Tricia Tunstul by Sabrina Dimino


I was amazed to see how much difference that could be made among the desperate ones with your misical program. I am ministering in Cap-Haitian Haiti, where your program would make a lot of difference in so many lives. My question to you is how can you help me estabish this in Haiti?
May God bless you.